DDirk
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Authored by DDirk on Dec 9, 2013 17:59:11 GMT
Windows 7 is growing faster then Windows 8(.1). Windows 8 Performance Remains WeakWill we see a repeat of Vista, with every body skipping this version, waiting for the next one? If so, would that leave many Windows systems in the consumer market with the mobile competition? Have nothing against Microsoft competing in the market as anybody else. Just can not explain such a market share in the desktop and professional market with that kind of products. And that is easily proved, that market share was won some time ago with still worse products, while alternatives were available.. Anyhow, they don't need all that money, they will use it in patent wars harming competition and technical progress. Or in over financed project to force there way in some markets. Or on so called public relation companies to change the image of themselves and their products.
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Authored by wol on Dec 9, 2013 18:48:49 GMT
Windows 7 is growing faster then Windows 8(.1). Windows 8 Performance Remains WeakHave nothing against Microsoft competing in the market as anybody else. Just can not explain such a market share in the desktop and professional market with that kind of products. And that is easily proved, that market share was won some time ago with still worse products, while alternatives were available.. It's not that they won it - it's that they were convicted of dirty tricks over Netscape, they were sued (and lost) over dirty tricks with DR-Dos, they were condemned out of their own mouth with 1-2-3, they seem to have gotten away with WordPerfect (thanks to the Netscape lawsuit :-( ... The sooner their rubbish products are gone, and we can get real competition back (rather than the competition copying their *mis*features), the better. Cheers, Wol
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gringo
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Authored by gringo on Dec 10, 2013 6:37:22 GMT
Fascinating - the curve for Windows 8.x growth on that graph is flattening out, while the curve for Windows 7 has accelerated a bit. If we extrapolate for another year, Windows 7 will outsell Windows 8.x by better than 3:1. Don't know how much longer OEMs can meet the demand for Windows 7, but I think for many months yet. I think as people begin to accelerate replacement of Windows XP systems, Windows 7 would be the logical choice. Windows 8.x would probably be too radical a change to these people.
I think that graph holds a lesson for Larson-Green. She was responsible for the controversial "Ribbon" interface in Office that I personally hate and for the "Metro" look, which is clearly a loser. In spite of that, as part of a Microsoft reorganization in July 2013, Larson-Green was named as the head of the newly formed Devices and Studios Engineering Group. The new division oversees the company's various efforts in hardware, particularly the Xbox One and Surface tablet. (According to Wikipedia). Go figure! I have been reading complaints that the UI for the latest XBox is as nonsensical as the original Metro. If I were in charge of Microsoft, the first thing I would do is scrap the Metro design as fast as I could and start over from scratch - all this preceded by dismissing Larson-Green, or consigning her to some corner far from UI design. Again according to Wikipedia, she has a passion for user experience, but clearly she doesn't have the talent to match. The Metro design is like the product of a brain-storming session by a committee of programmers during an enthusiastic pub crawl. I'm sure it looked good to them at the time and they had fun, but the next morning, sober heads should have prevailed and given the job to UI specialists.
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Authored by macrorodent on Dec 10, 2013 9:49:46 GMT
The "Metro" design actually isn't bad for a mobile phone, where displaying a limited number of clearly labeled choices is good. But it is completely incomprehensible why they are pushing it on the desktop. A severe case of "if your tool is a hammer, all problems look like nails...". Seems the marketplace agrees.
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GLaw
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Authored by GLaw on Dec 10, 2013 11:47:00 GMT
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Authored by drakaan on Dec 11, 2013 19:41:11 GMT
I think this has very little to do with Windows 8 and 8.1 and everything to do with Windows XP. Many windows users are business users and IT departments are finally facing the final end-of-support for XP. That means no patches, and no patches means lots of vulnerabilities, so they're upgrading to something without a Metro interface to confuse business users, which is Windows 7.
After March of next year, the growth of Windows 7 machines will be right around zero.
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AdmFubar
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Authored by AdmFubar on Dec 16, 2013 4:52:47 GMT
The move reflects the hardware requirements of win8.x. You need new hardware that supports uefi to run win8. upgrading to win7 is a lower cost alternative to this.
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Authored by wayneborean on Dec 29, 2013 2:57:28 GMT
There are other issues with Windows. 1) The gamers I know are all using Windows 7. Windows 8 has made very little progress in the gamer market. 2) There's been a huge shift towards tablets in business. Businesses are using tablets for things like shipping/receiving and inventory (bar code scanning software). There are probably a pile of applications that I don't know about - while I was still working I there was a lot of discussion about using iPhones for this, Android devices are of course less expensive. 3) Consumers have been buying tablets like crazy, and using them instead of desktop/laptop units. Most tablets/mobiles are extending the lives of existing Windows units, or replacing the need for replacements. It is unlikely that users are going to abandon tablets. They are just too convenient. Most tablet users don't use keyboards. The Microsoft Surface tablets with keyboards don't offer enough extra value to cover the cost of the keyboard for most users. Wayne madhatter.ca
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Authored by jccbrooker on Dec 31, 2013 17:26:38 GMT
It's been interesting, I was in Fry's Electronics, late November-ish, and wandered back to see if they carried Chromebooks. Now, please understand that I am a little under 5ft tall, and (ahem) mildly elderly, so salespeople don't expect much from people like me. After walking up and down the isles filled with laptops of all sizes, all using Windows 8, I asked a young salesman if they had any Chrome books. He barely looked up from his paperwork as he waved his hand towards the back. "They are on the end". I followed his hand wave and found two Chromebooks on an end-cap, facing the back wall. One was an HP, which seemed to be in working order. The other one was an Acer that was dirty with smudgy-fingerprints and not connected to the Internet. Later I read HP's version of the Chromebook had problems with over-heating batteries or problematic chargers (I know, I should Google to refresh my memory and be more specific, sorry). So it was interesting that the HP was the only one on display that looked sellable. So back to the sales guy I went and asked if those two Chromebooks were all they carried, and he said yes, and he added that nobody wants them, they aren't selling. I looked around at all of the Windows 8 laptops and netbooks that no customers were looking at and smiled sweetly and said, So Windows 8 is the big seller, is it? He said yes, and that everyone loves it, and rattled off selling points like "touchscreen" and "games" and "Office" and whatever (I tuned him out). So, I asked if one could buy a laptop with Windows 7. He was adamant. "No way!" Then he made a frowny-face at me. I just kept smiling. My son in Kansas City said that MicroCenter advertised laptops with Windows 7, but when he got to the store there were no Windows 7 laptops to be had, only Windows 8 was available on any new ones. Windows 7 was only on a few refurbished models which, when he asked about them, seemed to have been sold already. Microsoft is really pushing to get 7 off the shelves, so customers might think they have no other choice. I think most people know better these days.
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Authored by wayneborean on Jan 1, 2014 5:01:55 GMT
Shebat Legion (writer - you can find her on Amazon), was given a Windows 8 Update as a birthday present. She ended up asking me to roll it back to Windows 7 for her. My wife has, and loves, her HP Chromebook. But both use tablets for everything except Writing/Homework. Neither is a Computer Geek, though neither could live without one Wayne madhatter.ca
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Authored by jccbrooker on Jan 1, 2014 16:52:49 GMT
Yesterday I was going to help a friend get beyond WinXP. She doesn't like change, but she knows it's time to face it. She's seen my computers and listened to me explain how she could try the system I use in a dual-boot set-up. Over the last few years I've offered to help her do that many times. Now I wish I'd never done that.
Earlier this month she finally asked me to set up a dual-boot for her with Windows 7. It seems her son presented her with a "new" Win 7 machine which he built last year for his (now ex)girlfriend, then gave it to his mom. I took a look at it yesterday and popped an Ubuntu CD in the drive and rebooted.
It immediately booted into Win7. I rebooted, this time looking for the BIOs to set the boot order. It immediately booted into Win 7. No POST, no "hit Delete to enter BIOS" verbage, nothing. Just instant Windows 7. I had a bad feeling I was finally facing my first UEFI experience. From what I've been reading this morning it looks like I'm in for a bad experience. This MSI motherboard apparently uses a (so-called) "modern feature BIOS" called ClickBIOS (Easy-to-use UEFI BIOS interface) , which needs to be installed from the cd that came with the MB ... which didn't seem to be with the computer. (sigh)
It used to be so easy to create a dual-boot. It's time for me to stop trying to make other people's transitions away from Windows easy. I haven't used Windows myself for many years, I've forgotten how annoying it used to be to jump through their hoops just to do something that SHOULD be simple.
Ok, sorry for the rant. I so miss Groklaw. : (
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Authored by wayneborean on Jan 1, 2014 20:36:19 GMT
Yesterday I was going to help a friend get beyond WinXP. She doesn't like change, but she knows it's time to face it. She's seen my computers and listened to me explain how she could try the system I use in a dual-boot set-up. Over the last few years I've offered to help her do that many times. Now I wish I'd never done that. Earlier this month she finally asked me to set up a dual-boot for her with Windows 7. It seems her son presented her with a "new" Win 7 machine which he built last year for his (now ex)girlfriend, then gave it to his mom. I took a look at it yesterday and popped an Ubuntu CD in the drive and rebooted. It immediately booted into Win7. I rebooted, this time looking for the BIOs to set the boot order. It immediately booted into Win 7. No POST, no "hit Delete to enter BIOS" verbage, nothing. Just instant Windows 7. I had a bad feeling I was finally facing my first UEFI experience. From what I've been reading this morning it looks like I'm in for a bad experience. This MSI motherboard apparently uses a (so-called) "modern feature BIOS" called ClickBIOS (Easy-to-use UEFI BIOS interface) , which needs to be installed from the cd that came with the MB ... which didn't seem to be with the computer. (sigh) It used to be so easy to create a dual-boot. It's time for me to stop trying to make other people's transitions away from Windows easy. I haven't used Windows myself for many years, I've forgotten how annoying it used to be to jump through their hoops just to do something that SHOULD be simple. Ok, sorry for the rant. I so miss Groklaw. : ( MSI has information about it on their website - it appears you can download what you need. www.msi.com/html/popup/MB/uefi/faq.htmlWayne madhatter.ca
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Authored by jccbrooker on Jan 2, 2014 6:45:40 GMT
Thanks Wayne,
Yes, I had already gathered all of the downloads and manuals. Nevertheless, I decided not to mess with it. I did install Mint on the old XP computer though. Easy as pie and it's running pretty fast, all things considered.
: )
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Authored by wayneborean on Jan 3, 2014 0:34:23 GMT
Thanks Wayne, Yes, I had already gathered all of the downloads and manuals. Nevertheless, I decided not to mess with it. I did install Mint on the old XP computer though. Easy as pie and it's running pretty fast, all things considered. : ) Tried Mint, didn't like it. It ran fine, but wasn't for me. I'm currently running Sabayon. Wayne madhatter.ca
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Authored by bp on Jan 4, 2014 19:38:31 GMT
Had my first experience with windows 8 yesterday. Not sure how much of the grief was due to the OS or the slow network connection. Took hours to install firefox and update the anti virus definitions, no updates for the OS were offered. Easy enough to get back to the familiar desktop but the weather App kept popping up with the New York weather forecast. Luckily HP has put a quick launch on their machine to replace the start menu. A bit of a puzzle to turn the machine off when I was done, no obvious shutdown option even after clicking start. I had to logout before I was given the shutdown option. My first Slackware install back in '95 seemed more intuitive.
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